Anyone know of a good, high-quality module remanufacturer?

"NKato" (NKato) 02/20/2019 at 15:30 • Filed to: None

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So I finally got a response from the Ford Dealership up in Canada, and it was far more professional than the local dealerships. Way more professional. They were able to explain why they couldn’t reflash the ECM to my VIN (and in better detail) , and suggested that I acquire a replacement through a remanufacturer as there is no existing stock remaining.

So I put this question to you Oppo: What module remanufacturers do you know of, and which one do you believe has the best reputation for quality? It seems I may also need to pick up a replacement ABS module as well for the car due to the VIN mismatch issue.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > NKato 02/20/2019 at 15:44

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I don’t know of any re manufacturers, but I would imagine that you could scavenge some parts of a wreck if needed?  

RallyWrench > NKato 02/20/2019 at 15:49

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Xemodex , conveniently in Canada. Very professional, they do great work and back it up. We ship them stuff from here in California because their service is worth it. Not sure if they’ll be able to do your module, but their site is very thorough and a real person will answer the phone if you need.

NKato > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 02/20/2019 at 15:50

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No, the problem is that I need to get a blank ECM to minimize the risk of a failed programming job. The dealerships are extremely hesitant to attempt a full, outright reprogram on the ECM because it can and has failed in the past.

This is what Dams Ford told me.

That means finding a reman’d ECM that has been blanked out. Salvage ECMs are highly questionable.

NKato > RallyWrench 02/20/2019 at 15:57

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Sent them an email. Let’s see what happens. They do not list the Crown Victoria as part of their inventory.

Honeybunchesofgoats > NKato 02/20/2019 at 16:10

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https://m.autozone.com/engine-management/engine-control-computer/ford/crown-victoria

Maybe one of these?

NKato > Honeybunchesofgoats 02/20/2019 at 16:11

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Not even remotely close to being the correct unit.

AestheticsInMotion > NKato 02/20/2019 at 16:15

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At this point why not go aftermarket ECU? 

Honeybunchesofgoats > NKato 02/20/2019 at 16:16

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I’m not really sure what you’re looking for. Have you tried googling around?

http://siaelec.com/product/ford-crown-victoria-ecm-ecu-repair-return/

dogisbadob > NKato 02/20/2019 at 16:19

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Time to swap in a Mustang V8 for more power, and probably better ECM availability too :o)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > NKato 02/20/2019 at 16:24

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I’m a tad lost. Why does the CV need a new ECU?

NKato > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/20/2019 at 16:36

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Original clapped out, stopped working with the EVAP system. I grabbed a replacement from a junked 2010 CVPI that was the donor for the engine that’s in the car now. Downside, wrong VIN loaded, no TC.

I want to get the car back to factory spec. 

NKato > dogisbadob 02/20/2019 at 16:37

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 mate... It's a CVPI. It's already a mustang V8.

NKato > AestheticsInMotion 02/20/2019 at 16:38

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 And what manufacturers are there? I've had little luck locating any aftermarket ECMs that would be 100% compatible. 

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > NKato 02/20/2019 at 16:45

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Any attempt made to repair the original unit? Could be as simple as a bad capacitor that could be fixed for pennies on the dollar, especially compared to trying to build a clean ECU.

Ash78, voting early and often > NKato 02/20/2019 at 17:08

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I had really good luck with Module Master for an ABS replacement about 10 years ago. Glad to see they’re still in business. A pleasure to deal with and good service and prices. IIRC there was a core refund when I sent the old one in, or you can just buy a reman from them directly.

https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/

AestheticsInMotion > NKato 02/20/2019 at 17:22

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I like Megasquirt. 

dogisbadob > NKato 02/20/2019 at 17:34

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It doesn’t have as much power as the Mustang version tho. The CVPI only has like 230 hp. When installed in a people-mower, it has 300.

NKato > dogisbadob 02/20/2019 at 18:09

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250. Same engine as the New Edge generation mustangs. It uses the Marauder intake. 

NKato > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/20/2019 at 18:11

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 wouldn't know where to go for that. 

dogisbadob > NKato 02/20/2019 at 18:22

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You can still swap in a 300-hp Mustang V8 in it tho ;)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > NKato 02/20/2019 at 18:45

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Find a local old-school radio, tv, or electronics repair place that does board-level stuff. Find a pin-out. Have them look for issues relating to the pins that work with the evap system. What year is this ECU?

NKato > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/20/2019 at 18:51

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2010. 

50ford500 > NKato 02/20/2019 at 20:46

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Modulemaster may be able to help out

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/20/2019 at 22:07

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Real Talk: a nyone who tells you Megasquirt without asking any questions is wrong.

‘Kay. That out of the way: need to know your exact YMM, cylinders, your planned modifications, your emissions regime (CA or Fed,) state of primary operation (climate,) your desired horsepower, whether the odometer is digital or mechanical ( THIS MATTERS TREMENDOUSLY ,) whether you need any OBD1, OBD1.5, or OBD-II, and whether you need any additional diagnostics or sensor inputs.

Fair warning: you aren’t going to like real numbers. Nobody  likes real numbers to keep it road legal.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/20/2019 at 22:27

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Aka, expensive? :p

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/20/2019 at 22:42

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Let me put it to you this way: if you need to maintain OBD-II compliance for emissions testing and want to use a non-factory ECU, you need a fully programmable and verifiable ECU with at minimum OBD-II level sensor inputs.

The cheapest option there for an 8 cylinder is a MoTeC M150 GPR   core at $3,000 base hardware and $1,2 00 base software. That does not include any of the wiring or software development time. And that’s going to be a non-guaranteed build. Also presumes you don’t need any transmission sensors or control and have mechanical gauge and odometer. Just adding the transmission’s easily another $2k.

Nobody will do a guaranteed OBD-II build because it’s illegal. The ECU is emissions control. Wholesale replacement even with a “behaves like stock” isn’t stock, and it is impossible to validate it as functionally identical.

Closest and cheapest solution you’re gonna find is AEM’s Coyote P&P adapter harness for the Infinity 7. It is not emissions legal and your OTD price without required software, sensors, and adapters is more than $2,700.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/20/2019 at 22:44

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Reminds me of the HDCP fuckery. 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/20/2019 at 23:03

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Nope, OBD-II is totally different from HDCP fuckery.

See, HDCP is 100% pure bullshit. Period. Simple as that. Do not even ask how easily I can break it.

OBD-II isn’t bullshit encryption and locking people out of shit just to be spiteful assholes . It’s mandated standardization with defined minimums . The fact is that none of the regulatory bodies care in the least how you achieve OBD-II compliance. You can do it with a toaster and a Z80 for all they care. Just so long as you have the required inputs, the required outputs, sufficient tamper protection or indication, and follow the defined standards.

If your aftermarket controller is capable of meeting those minimums, then it is capable of being certified. Capable does not MEAN certified though. Certification means actual emissions testing, under the same standards as the OE equipment. Which is a very, very expensive proposition. Especially since you have to provide a pretty significant number of vehicles to be tested and they can be randomly tested at any time. And if your programmable unit doesn’t have sufficient anti-tamper protection and a state reports a non-compliant ECU which didn’t fail tamper check? It’s the company making the defeat system on the hook, as they should be.

That’s why all the scummy ‘tuner chip’ makers got their asses handed to them in nothing flat. They were using hacks to get around emissions tampering indicators and making false claims about how it was totally legal while knowingly providing lip-service to the ‘off-road use only’ line . This is a MAJOR no-no. You do not do this . Any OBD-2 car is covered by FEDERAL law, so it doesn’t matter what your state says, and it never will.

Now all THAT said, non-OBD-2 cars and pre-OBD-2 cars are in the ‘white’ area. Because there’s a general recognition that those ECUs were, frankly, complete shit to begin with? It’s roller test for you. Once you say it’s tailpipe and presence of components? Removing your cat, still illegal - required by Federal law. Replacing your ECU with an aftermarket one, completely legal if it smogs.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/20/2019 at 23:39

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Yup, figures. That said, I’m gonna call up a different dealership and try again on getting the car programmed.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/21/2019 at 09:13

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Pretty much. The problem there being that Ford of course, apparently quit making the ECUs. And full-flash programming these is a crapshoot at best. You’ve got a 70/30 chance of it bricking. 90/10 on a used unit with a different software load. And once you brick a flash, that’s all she wrote.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/21/2019 at 16:48

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Pretty much, that’s why it’s extremely frustrating. I can’t seem to get my hands on a replacement ECU unit, which is supremely irritating. Ford shouldn’t have ceased producing the ECUs.

If it bricks, getting a replacement ECU is going to be difficult and extremely time-consuming. That’s why I’m not happy with Ford.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/21/2019 at 17:03

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That’s why I always lose my shit at people who insist a junkyard ECU is good enough or somehow acceptable. Modern ECUs are not just incredibly complex and fragile, but also no more designed for updates than the earliest ones! Manufacturers and engineers go to INCREDIBLE lengths to avoid ever having to actually flash the ECU itself for any reason.

You can’t just wipe the NVRAM or SRAM and dump a whole new image plus the write-protected VIN and ODO data on a random unit. For one, if you’re lucky , an ECU will last 4 flashes before CRC failure bricking. That’s it. Second, the VIN and ODO are write protected ! They’re never supposed to be updated or modified and it’s supposed to trip the tamper or brick it.

If you get a brand new Chrysler NGC with the correct code load, you get ONE try to set the VIN . You are warned no less than a dozen times: GET THE VIN CORRECT. If you get the ODO wrong, it can be corrected once , but NOT the VIN. Once you set the VIN with the DRB-III or the StarSCAN, that’s it. Screw that up and you’re sending the PCM right back.

You’re absolutely right - Ford shouldn’t have stopped producing ECUs. Especially not if they’re known to fail. Which is what has me confused about the whole ordeal, honestly. The Crown Vic was sold in fleet until 2012, with an expected lifespan of 10 years. The only thing I can think of is that Ford is aggressively discontinuing parts to try and escape the fuel tank risks. (Good job with the Explorers that pump CO2 into the cabin, Ford.)

NKato > Honeybunchesofgoats 02/21/2019 at 17:05

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Too many questionable reviews for that company, not risking it.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/21/2019 at 17:15

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Well, if you feel inclined to help me out in procuring a replacement ECU, you’re welcome to. The part number is AW7Z-12A650-FA.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/21/2019 at 19:59

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Ford says that’s the OPN and SPN... so... okay!

Call Bob Gillingham Ford, 216-398-3878 - parts@bobgford.com

You’re ACTUALLY looking for AW7Z-12A650-AARM (AKN0) which is the unprogrammed one . You will then need a not-shitty Ford dealer who understands how to install an UNPROGRAMMED EEC-V versus a blank VIN. This one is factory fresh blank VIN, odometer, AND blank calibration.

Bob Gillingham’s system appears to list it as available. And in my experience, if Gillingham can’t get it, nobody can. They may be able to program it for you as well, but don’t bet on it.

I feel kind of stupid for not thinking of this before. Gillingham was who I called for obscure Escort parts years and years back. If they were able to find a 4-2-1 header and complete set of lifters for an engine 20 years after Ford quit making them, they can find this.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/21/2019 at 20:09

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As an added note it needs to be compatible with a 2010 CVPI. Is that part number compatible?

Edit: I've noticed the diagrams don't match the actual form factor of the ECM on my car. Not sure why. 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/21/2019 at 20:16

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That part number is supposedly ‘generic’ EEC-V module. The -FA suffix indicates the specific calibration pre-loaded on the module; they all have a common form factor. -AARM should be the ‘no calibration’ part that can be used to replace  any AW7Z-12A650.  

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/21/2019 at 20:33

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Let’s say I have an ecm with the FARM suffix, and it’s been running my car just fine. The only difference between it and the original ECM is the fact that it has a different vin and traction control is not enabled. The part numbers are the same.

Would it be safe to change the vin and enable TC? Have you had experience with these particular ECMs?

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/21/2019 at 20:57

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My Ford expertise is limited to EEC-IV, not EEC-V, unfortunately. However, I do know that Ford has some of the twitchiest protection ever in the EEC-V. When I looked into going from EEC-IV to EEC-V, I was told straight up that there is absolutely NO possible way to reprogram the VIN, calibration, OR chassis features on the EEC-V without bricking them. Even with the correct Ford tools and the cryptographic materials and authorizations from FoMoCo .

Because Ford uses a common platform, a different ECM working for the same engine/platform/dash doesn’t surprise me terribly. But it’s not going to work right, and will fail emissions because of VIN/ODO mismatch. The second you so much as attempt a VIN reprogram the EEC-V is designed to brick as part of anti-theft/anti-tamper protection, as far as I can tell.

The only way you can fix a VIN mismatch is to get a factory service EEC-V which does not have a VIN pre-programmed. Programming the VIN arms anti-tamper/anti-theft on any OBD2 module . I’d honestly wager that half the ‘rebuilt’ EEC-V’s out there are using a generic calibration and a pirated service part dump, and won’t survive a single flash without bricking the storage.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/21/2019 at 21:16

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Well, if my car bricks, I’m gonna shit down Ford’s throat for ceasing production of the ECM.

By the way, odometer information is stored separately from the ECM. My odometer did not change when I swapped the module.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/21/2019 at 22:18

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That’s just it. The parts system I searched says it’s still available . They have stocks. On hand. So, yeah, I have no idea why the dealer claimed it’s not available.

And you’re right and wrong. It’s not stored separately. It’s stored twice . Every single digital odometer came to my bay because everybody else had problems doing it right because of that. (The DRB-III put them in two different menus so it was obnoxious and slow unless you knew the trick to queue it up .) I guarantee Ford does it the same way as Chrysler did.

What is displayed on your dash, is not what is stored in the PCM. Which made the idiots trying to commit odometer fraud so hilariously easy to catch. There’s a counter in the IPC PCB that does the display to reduce the load on the bus. It does not reflect the PCM value. That’s why all the “odometer correction” scams on eBay have you wiring up to the IPC instead of plugging in to the OBD-II. You can make the IPC lie.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/21/2019 at 22:35

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Fascinating. I'll see about getting the AARM as soon as I can, as a backup in case the reprogram attempt scheduled for the 8th of March fails. 

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/22/2019 at 15:57

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Phone is coming up with a busy signal and while I sent them an email yesterday, I have yet to receive a response. Hmm... this is why being deaf sucks.  A lot of places don't bother to reply to emails. 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/22/2019 at 16:41

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They usually take a day or two on email around here. Try the main number? 216-398-1300.

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/25/2019 at 14:41

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The first phone number came back as out of service or disconnected. Wow.

I attempted the other number, and the call could not be transferred to a live person for some reason. The answering machine did properly identify as Bob Gillingham Ford though.

The email has not been responded to yet.

For all intents and purposes, the place may as well be a ghost to a deaf person, because they aren’t responding to my IP Relay calls, which isn’t making it any easier for me.

Edit: Kept calling the front desk, in the hopes that someone would pick up, for five minutes. It keeps going back to an answering machine for choosing options, but it doesn’t ACTUALLY work for transferring you to the appropriate department.

So effectively, I am unable to actually contact Bob Gillingham Ford.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/25/2019 at 14:49

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Ugh, probably they have a shitty IVR. :(

NKato > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/25/2019 at 15:05

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Do you have a Discord? I want to get in touch directly with you so I can pass along some information that might help in getting in touch with the dealership.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > NKato 02/25/2019 at 15:35

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Yeah. I’m a bit busy today, but hop into https://discord.gg/VrdzVP and I can take a swing  tomorrow at the latest for sure.